 | | | | | | The girl with the x-ray eyes Last Post 27 Aug 2010 04:33 AM by desertgal. 8 Replies. | Sort: |
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Ambermae
Newbie
Posts:2
 | | 22 Aug 2010 02:33 PM |
| Hi, I'm new to this board and i don't know if this is the right place to post this, i stumbled across this website because i post on the JREF forum and looked at one of the threads on visionfromfeeling. It reminded me of a girl named Natasha Demkina (also known as the girl with the x-ray eyes). I saw a progamme about her on TV here in the UK, i wonder if this woman Anita Ikonen has also heard of this girl. Although the claims are a little different from each other the general idea is the same, could Natasha Demkina have inspired Anita? I read somewhere that she took on the signs/symptoms/ideas of the savant Daniel Tammet. I also write here because as a person with a diagnosed personality disorder it worries me that she says on her website that she doesn't think she is mentally ill because she doesn't 'feel' mentally ill. Well i can say from experience that the 20 years i went undiagnosed i didn't 'feel' mentally ill either, but my behaviour was quite the opposite! I have what is called Borderline Personality Disorder (with mild bipolar) and i'm taking antipsychotic drugs to help and i am under the care of both a psychiatrist and psychiatric nurse. I say all this because as a person with mental health issues, it worries me greatly that this woman who is clearly mentally ill is not having treatment, i went through hell while i was undiagnosed and would hope that nobody else would have to go through the same thing, has any effort been made by anyone (school/friends) to contact her family? Could the police do anything as she is clearly a danger in my opinion, what if she tells some poor pregnant woman that there is something wrong with her unborn child? I'm sorry for the long post and if its the wrong place to say these things but i feel that the JREF is not taking this issue seriously enough! | | | |
| Jim Carr
Your Brilliancy
Leader of the Pack
Posts:1156
| | 23 Aug 2010 02:16 AM |
| Anita actually wrote a letter to CSICOP asking to be tested and brought up Natasha Demkina. See below:
(source)
Dear Committee for Skeptical Inquiry (CSI),
I am a paranormal claimant investigating my experience of medical perceptions. When I look at people I perceive images that depict internal tissue and organs. That in itself is not of interest, since I already have other forms of synesthesia. I am investigating the perceptions since I have experienced interesting cases of correlation between the perceptions and with the actual health of people. Obviously many of those cases could be explained as unintentional cold reading of external symptoms, but some of the things I have accurately perceived should not be accessible to ordinary senses of perception and possibly not even to someone who were a skilled cold reader.
I am investigating the medical perceptions to determine whether I am in fact accurately describing health information that should not be accessible to the senses of perception. To form my perceptions I look at a person and feel what I call a "vibrational pattern" across the person, and it translates on its own into corresponding images. I use no interaction with the person such as speaking or touching, and I use no materials, prior knowledge or feedback. I do not share these perceptions with people and I do not offer psychic readings.
I do not assume that my perceptions would depict reality, and I am prepared to falsify this paranormal claim. I do feel that I have no explanation to some of my past experiences of accurate perceptions, and I believe that as the claimant I am unable to test myself and that is why I need to involve independent skeptics in my investigation.
I contacted the Independent Investigations Group IIG West two years ago about having a test but it was only recently after I had studied my claim that I was able to narrow down my claim to one specific type of health information that would work well with both me and the test. And I have decided to test my paranormal claim of medical perceptions on detecting whether a person has one or both kidneys.
The IIG and I are still in protocol discussions. I live in North Carolina and the IIG are in California and they have recommended that I try to arrange some preliminary testing so that I am better prepared for our test and for the outcome of our test, and I admit that a preliminary test would also offer me a chance to practice before the official test. I have contacted the local Forsyth Area Critical Thinkers (FACT) Skeptics Group, and the Southern Skeptical Society, and have even gone so far as to contact the Rhine Research Center in hopes of arranging some form of preliminary test. I am still waiting for their replies.
I would now like to ask whether the CSI has the resources and willingness to arrange a preliminary test of my claim of kidney detection with me. In 2004 the CSI performed a test of Natasha Demkina. Her claims were similar to mine, however the test protocol I have in mind is already better than hers was. I would only get to see the back of the subject, and the subject is wearing a shirt. Head, neck, shoulders, arms, and from hips and down are screened off. Meanwhile Ms. Demkina's test had obvious flaws. Some of the ailments she was asked to identify could have been detected by carefully watching for external clues. Meanwhile I fail to see what clues a person's clothed back could reveal as to the number of kidneys they have.
Although not flawless, Ms. Demkina's test succeeded in falsifying her claim and I believe that my preliminary test would also not need to be perfect in design. If I were to pass a preliminary test it would by no means provide evidence in favor of the claim but only warrant further testing. And if I fail the test it falsifies the claim that I have of medical perceptions and would set a valuable example of the application of the scientific and skeptical method to unexplainable experiences.
Regardless of the outcome of my own test, having involved myself in skepticism, once my investigation has reached a conclusion, I intend to become a skeptical investigator of paranormal claims that are similar to mine. I am an undergraduate student majoring in both Chemistry and Physics and headed toward a career in Medical Physics. I have not chosen to experience perceptions of internal tissues and organs, but I have chosen to investigate them.
Please let me know if the CSI is interested in working with a preliminary test with me and if you have further questions. I am willing to assume all costs associated with the test and to travel to the test site.
Paranormal claimant
Anita Ikonen
www.visionfromfeeling.com | | UncaYimmy
Web Design and Virtual Marketing | |
| desertgal
V.P. of Patient Relations
Stripes Earned - Respect Me
Posts:1031
| | 23 Aug 2010 01:45 PM |
| To answer your other questions, Amber: more than 200 people have noted that they believe Anita is suffering from some type of delusional/narcissistic personality disorder and, indeed, her behavior is consistent with the textbook description of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. But Anita doesn't "feel mentally ill" so she completely disregards any of that input. She doesn't want to take it seriously, because she is "entitled to the way she feels", so she won't.
There is a potential danger in her actions, but, at the present time, there isn't much more anyone can do. Her family must be aware of her issues, but I imagine they also recognize the futility in trying to persuade her to seek help. As well, she's been in the USA for some years now, and her family is in Sweden. Not much they can do long distance, even if they were inclined.
The State Medical Board in NC is aware of Anita's shenanigans, and so is the counseling center at her (possibly former) university. But, the most the Board can do at this point is simply file the information for future reference. And, of course, she cannot be forced to seek help by fellow students, etc.
I don't believe the JREF has any responsibility towards encouraging Anita seek help, but a certain member hasn't helped the situation, either, by encouraging her to continue her 'investigation' and advising her that he believes she has something worth investigating. Just fuel to the fire, but since he didn't do it "on behalf of the JREF", then it isn't supposed to count. Or something like that. | | | "The only time you can read the future from cards is when you are holding four aces in a poker game." - Pernell Roberts | |
| Ambermae
Newbie
Posts:2
| | 23 Aug 2010 09:13 PM |
| Thank you for your replies, I understand that the JREF have no direct responsibility for her but maybe this case will encourage them and other skeptical organisations to have future applicants for these tests that they do, to require a psychiatric test or report, it may not have even helped in this case but i think it would be a wise idea. However i will do what i can to spread the word about this lady to my friends and family in the event she comes to the UK. I really hope she doesn't!  | | | |
| Audible Click
Merit Badge for Meanies
Posts:502
| | 24 Aug 2010 09:40 AM |
| Let me preface this post by stating that most of us on this website have been dealing with Anita Ikonen since November 2008. This is a person that has done everything in her power to draw attention to herself and in the process has lied about many things and attempted to manipulate numerous people. I know of at least three people who had their personal information posted by Anita Ikonen on the JREF Forum website. These postings were done out of sheer vindictiveness. This is a woman who will lie and cheat to get herself even a small amount of attention. This person has promoted Breatharianism which is a very dangerous concept that people can forgo food and live on air. She did this as "Alenara" and, to this day, does not disavow this dangerous practice. Personally, I, and many others, believe that she has all the symptoms of Narcissistic personality disorder. She refuses to acknowledge that she needs help and because of this she will continue to hurt innocent people. The quote below is from a website about attention seeking behavior that perfectly describes the Anita Ikonen that I've watched and, somewhat, interacted with over the past two years. My advice to any new members of this website is to stay far away from her. She's toxic and simply not worth it.
The quote:
"The emotionally immature person, however, has low levels of self-esteem and self-confidence and consequently feels insecure; to counter these feelings of insecurity they will spend a large proportion of their lives creating situations in which they become the centre of attention. It may be that the need for attention is inversely proportional to emotional maturity, therefore anyone indulging in attention-seeking behaviours is telling you how emotionally immature they are." | | | It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames.
-- Harry Hill | |
| Jim Carr
Your Brilliancy
Leader of the Pack
Posts:1156
| | 24 Aug 2010 11:02 AM |
| Thanks for your comments, Ambermae. It's really a sad situation. I hope this website helps other organizations, skeptical or otherwise, understand what they are dealing with.
That aside, I have recommended countless times that she get treatment. She attended UNCC, and the university has free mental health care, but Anita claimed it was too expensive (don't ask me). I then offered to pay for a visit, but she refused. I offered to send the UNCC mental health folks information that could help her, but she declined.
However, like with many things, it turns out she was lying. We have learned that she has been treated for depression. She claims to have told her practitioner about her claims and that he or she concluded there was nothing of concern. I find that hard to believe. She was, according to her, prescribed medication for her depression, but she refused to take it. She says she is "entitled" to her feelings and perceptions and is actually afraid of losing them.
The long and short of it is that many people have tried to help her, but she refuses. There is only so much anyone can do.
| | UncaYimmy
Web Design and Virtual Marketing | |
| desertgal
V.P. of Patient Relations
Stripes Earned - Respect Me
Posts:1031
| | 25 Aug 2010 09:02 PM |
| Hey, Jim, can you change my title to "at-home, internet-based amateur-level skeptic"? I rather like that. :-) | | | "The only time you can read the future from cards is when you are holding four aces in a poker game." - Pernell Roberts | |
| Audible Click
Merit Badge for Meanies
Posts:502
| | 25 Aug 2010 11:57 PM |
| In the Meanie™ army we use the acronym AHIBALS.  | | | It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames.
-- Harry Hill | |
| desertgal
V.P. of Patient Relations
Stripes Earned - Respect Me
Posts:1031
| | 27 Aug 2010 04:33 AM |
| Does that come with alcohol? I like alcohol. | | | "The only time you can read the future from cards is when you are holding four aces in a poker game." - Pernell Roberts | |
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