Posted By bookitty on 09 Mar 2010 11:27 PM

 Anita, to give credit where it is due, is the most well-spoken woo on the forum.

To be the most well-spoken woo on this or any other forum is to be the tallest pygmy.

Anita is an exploitative, dangerous, delusional attention whore.  I don't care if she changes or not, just as long as she's stopped.

Posted By UncaYimmy on 10 Mar 2010 09:52 PM

...
I don't want to see Bookitty get hurt in this.
...

That's a good point te mention.
Part of the huge commitment I mentioned earlier in this thread, would be overcoming repetitive hurtful behavior by Anita.

 

Posted By bookitty on 10 Mar 2010 02:05 PM

Desertgal, This new-found camaraderie with “the skeptics” is confusing.  It may be based on her experiences with IIG West.  They are some seriously intelligent and kind people.  But going to the concert doesn’t mean you’re in the band. 

It isn't "new found", though. She's been doing it all along. 

She sells her real self short, you know. She doesn't need all this crap to be appreciated as a unique individual.  

That.  Exactly that.  In the genetic lottery, she won.   Take away the claims and you've got a smart, funny, imaginative skeptic. 

No...take away the narcissism and you've a unique individual, in the sense that we are all unique individuals. But, I believe that Anita could more easily change the color of her eyes than eradicate her narcissism.

UY is right-if Anita were comfortable in her own skin, then she'd have no need for all the attention seeking and delusions. That is what I meant by my statement. She could easily live a valuable, productive life just being herself. The sad fact, though, is that it is virtually impossible for the real Anita to become comfortable in her own skin. The personality disorder is too deeply entrenched, and, since the origins of narcissism lie in low self esteem, Anita avoids her real self every way she can. She disregards the little (wo)man behind the curtain in favor of being the great and powerful Oz.

I think it's perfectly natural to want to help her. We've all felt that way. But, she's beyond our help. For one, she needs professional care, but, on the other hand, I doubt professional therapy would help her anyway. She'll never be able to let go of Oz. As well, towards those who expose the woman behind the curtain, she's vicious and vindictive. And that, for narcissists, can go far beyond what we've seen here (i.e. Diane Downs, Susan Smith, etc.) Narcissists will literally kill to maintain the narcissism. That's where it becomes important to expose Anita's narcissism, rather than attempt to help her. Like Christa, I care little about helping Anita anymore, because I know I can't. But I'll do anything I can to expose her lies and delusions, to prevent other people from getting hurt by her, and to prevent people fron encouraging her claims. Doing that just fuels her narcissism.

And if you're searching for a glimmer of hope that Anita can change-which I also think is natural-read her latest posts on the VfF General Discussion thread. I think those make it pretty clear that she's just been playing the narcissistic game again. (And harassing Lost Angeles with unwanted PM's now.) I think you are a greatly compassionate person, bookitty, and I applaud that, but I also don't want to see you get burned-if you have hope that Anita can "change", that hope is in vain. 

Posted By bookitty on 11 Mar 2010 03:17 PM
I can challenge her claims but exculpate her character.

Well...I wsh you luck with that, but I don't think it's possible. I believe there are a few fundamental elements missing from Anita's psyche-conscience and true self knowledge. At least, she's never displayed either during the entire VfF saga. I can enumerate many examples that indicate a lack of conscience, and not one that indicates the opposite. I also believe that interaction with her becomes fuel for her attention seeking.

With Anita, well, time will tell. But, I believe you'll find that the human traits you expect to find aren't really there. I 

think she mimics certain traits to achieve her own ends, but that is as far as it goes. That's not intended to be unkind towards Anita-I think her disorder has left her "drawn that way".

Posted By desertgal on 11 Mar 2010 05:31 PM 

Time will tell...

Time has told. Anita is who and what she is.

The difference between her and all of us flawed human beings is the difference between chipped fine china and smashed earthenware. She is not one of us.

This belief that people can change and embody their higher selves...... this must be some American delusion. Everyone can't change, and the pathologically ill seem not to want to.

I reserve my sympathy for Anita's past, present, and future victims. In other words, for the people who deserve it.

Posted By Christa on 11 Mar 2010 06:15 PM

Posted By desertgal on 11 Mar 2010 05:31 PM 

Time will tell... 

Time has told. Anita is who and what she is.

The difference between her and all of us flawed human beings is the difference between chipped fine china and smashed earthenware. She is not one of us.

This belief that people can change and embody their higher selves...... this must be some American delusion. Everyone can't change, and the pathologically ill seem not to want to.

I reserve my sympathy for Anita's past, present, and future victims. In other words, for the people who deserve it.

You misunderstood me, I think. I meant that we can only advise people about Anita. If they still want to pursue either challenging her claims or interacting with her, then only time will tell them that it is futile. And I absolutely do not suffer from any delusion that all people can change or be changed. 

Posted By desertgal on 11 Mar 2010 09:19 PM

You misunderstood me, I think. I meant that we can only advise people about Anita. If they still want to pursue either challenging her claims or interacting with her, then only time will tell them that it is futile. And I absolutely do not suffer from any delusion that all people can change or be changed. 

Oh, I see.  I did misunderstand you, and I also wasn't that clear myself.

I used your post as a jumping off point to address anyone, not you specifically, who believes that there's a real Anita in there, just waiting for medication and intensive psychotherapy to reveal herself.

The Anita we've seen is the real Anita, although I think what we don't see might even be worse.

Posted By bookitty on 11 Mar 2010 03:17 PM
... and offer Anita a place to explore other options critically.

What other options?

If you've read through all the Anita threads from the start you'll see that she has been offered, perfectly genuinely and by many posters in reasonable ways, lots of opportunities to explore her claims which she refused or ignored.

I'm wondering what other options you are thinking she may explore? Non-paranormal ones?

 

Posted By Ashles on 12 Mar 2010 01:14 PM

Posted By bookitty on 11 Mar 2010 03:17 PM
... and offer Anita a place to explore other options critically.

What other options?

If you've read through all the Anita threads from the start you'll see that she has been offered, perfectly genuinely and by many posters in reasonable ways, lots of opportunities to explore her claims which she refused or ignored.

I'm wondering what other options you are thinking she may explore? Non-paranormal ones?

 

The option of recognizing that she doesn't have to respond to the JREF would be a nice start.  Things there are in a rut and it is frustrating to everyone involved.   Baring that, the option to reply to someone supportive.    Defensiveness is not conducive to critical thinking. 

Posted By UncaYimmy on 13 Mar 2010 12:01 AM
...
There are plenty of obvious steps she can take to show she's coming around.
...

Indeed, I completely agree with this.
Without any such obvious steps, there really is no mending her ways.
 

Posted By bookitty on 12 Mar 2010 04:27 PM

 Baring that, the option to reply to someone supportive.   

In fairness, there have been qute a few people involved in the VfF saga on the JREF who have been supportive. They've treated Anita with kindness and attempted to gently prompt her to critically examine her claims. Each of them eventually threw up their hands in frustration, since even the most reasonable dialogue failed.

Challenging her claims simply gives Anita the opportunity to further her delusions.

Hell, she can't even acknowledge how somebody could even see her actions as being suspect, such as claiming a 4.0 when she clearly doesn't have one.

Or even admit that a picture of "Alenara" was actually a picture of Heather Locklear-even when confronted with the bald truth. Her defense was that she didn't "post" the picture, and that the picture wasn't "finished yet" and that she had "better ones". (I wonder which actresses appear in the "better ones"?)

WOW. Images of boiling bunnies dance through my head.

2 questions.....

What kind of girltalk do 2 people have when only 1 of them is a girl?

What happened to that criminal complaint she filed against you?

I mean, criminal complaint she said she was going to file against you. She was on her way to the police station a couple of months ago. Did she get lost?

I find myself alarmed at your continued harassment despite my repeated advisements that you do not contact me again except through an attorney. You have forced me to take more drastic steps to resolve this situation.