Posted By Farencue on 23 Sep 2009 07:24 PM

UncaYimmy - I believe she is lying and that she has not received the protocol from the IIG.  in fact I would bet next weeks wages on it.

I believe she received the protocol. IIG West has said that a protocol is being negotiated, and they have always been straight forward about their progress/non progress with Anita.

BUT there have been protocols on the table before that have gone nowhere. The fact that Anita is being so secretive about it indicates that negotiations have likely stalled again because the proposed protocol doesn't suit her.

Anita likes to play at protocols with IIG. It makes her look like she is making a sincere effort to be tested, when she is actually doing all she can to prevent that from happening. 

Hmm Desertgal, yep that makes sense too.  I hope Sez me at JREF gets back with the answer to his personal inquiry about it.

Posted By bookitty on 23 Sep 2009 07:06 PM
Just for the record, although I stated that this website will doom her future, I do not believe that it should be taken down. VFF has already shown that she is seeking marks for her con. The potential damage to many is more important than the actual damage to VFF. She has created this mess, she should deal with the repercussions.

I have no intention of taking it down. In fact, if you have a blog or any type of website, I would appreciate a link to this site. For the link text use Anita Ikonen or VisionFromFeeling. That will help the rankings. I'm still trying to reach the #1 position for both keywords.

Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 23 Sep 2009 06:02 PM

Posted By Audible Click on 23 Sep 2009 02:17 AM
It's very difficult to know if she thinks she's fooling anyone. Every comment on here and JREF is negative but she ignores them. I honestly don't know if she's so far down the rabbit hole that she actually believes and needs to believe, that she has paranormal powers. If it's some sort of build up to a career in woo then, yeah, I'd say she's just stringing us along. What is frightning, to me, is that if she ever has a meaningful test and fails it and she's mentally ill then what happens to her afterwards could be devestating.

I'm not trying to fool anyone. All I am saying is that I believe I have experienced interesting correlating medical perceptions that I can't deny or find an explanation for. And the only consequence of that is that I will have a paranormal test with the IIG. I absolutely do not believe I have a paranormal ability, I just think I've had interesting accurate perceptions of health. My main hypothesis is that I am unintentionally and subconsciously picking up subtle external clues about a person's health when I look at them and that it translates into corresponding images of health. I don't know. The first thing to do is to establish whether there is a significant accuracy or not that is beyond what a person should be able to acchieve. I'm headed toward a career in conventional medicine. I am prepared to fail at the IIG test and so if and when I fail I am ready for that outcome and won't even be surprised. That way if I pass the test it will be a pleasant surprise and if I fail I will be ready for it. And I really don't think I am mentally ill, if I were there would have been other clues, such as that I would actually be claiming to have a paranormal ability or that I would be saying that I don't think I am going to fail the IIG test. What happens after I fail the IIG test is that I will thank the IIG for having allowed me to falsify a claim I was not able to falsify on my own, I will proudly admit that I falsified a paranormal claim, and I will dedicate my website to this conclusion in my investigation. Don't let your imagination get you carried away, it could turn into delusional.

Do you think the highlighted sentence above is funny?  It's not even correct English BTW. 

As to delusions I am not the person who:

Posts any fantastical thing that pops into her head on her own webiste, this website, and the JREF.

Asks for protocol help and then changes each and every protocol suggestion to the point that it's unusable.

Posts personal information about Unca Yimmy and LightnDarkness on the internet.  BTW that is a big breach of internet protocol.

Calls skeptics "resources" and future scientists and possible coworkers "parasites".

Says that she like to make fun of the JREF skeptics and don't give me the language excuse because I'm way past the time where I'll ever give you the benefit of the doubt.

Wants to experiment on migraine sufferers and was so bold as to contact a migraine sufferers support group.  I could go on ad nauseum but I'll end it here.  As far as I'm concerned you are a waste of band width.

Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 23 Sep 2009 06:02 PM

I'm not trying to fool anyone.

Oh, so what do you call lying?

All I am saying is that I believe I have experienced interesting correlating medical perceptions that I can't deny or find an explanation for.

No, you are saying that you had an experience, called it paranormal and will look at no other explanation.

And the only consequence of that is that I will have a paranormal test with the IIG.

No, the only consequence is that IIG might (if you go through with it) end up wasting their time so that you can be the center of attention for a few hours.

I absolutely do not believe I have a paranormal ability,

Oh really?  Because your ENTIRE webite says otherwise.  You claim to heal people with touch, to see bacteria in cereal.  In addition, you have talked to Ben Franklin.  That wasn't paranormal?  And if you have no paranormal abilty, why the hell are you wasting IIG time?

I just think I've had interesting accurate perceptions of health. My main hypothesis is that I am unintentionally and subconsciously picking up subtle external clues about a person's health when I look at them and that it translates into corresponding images of health.

No, your main  hypothesis is that you have an extra-super-special ESP version of synesthesia which allows you to see through flesh. Your monicker is "Vision From Feeling" not "vision from subtle external clues"

but WOW!  Talk about changing the claims.    Before you were the human MRI who could tell which molecule in a carrot was good for cancer.  Now you just pick up on external clues?

You do realize that you just described yourself as a cold reader, right?

I don't know.

Oh yes you do.

The first thing to do is to establish whether there is a significant accuracy or not that is beyond what a person should be able to acchieve.

You did that.  You failed. 

I'm headed toward a career in conventional medicine.

No, you're not.  Not unless you figure out a way to look sane.  Do you really think that anyone would hire the person that you have been here, on the JREF forums and your website?  Someone who will tell the patient that they see health issues that the doctor can't?  Somebody who will treat people without their knowledge or permission?  Someone who tried to con a migraine group into being used as human guinea pigs?

I am prepared to fail at the IIG test and so if and when I fail I am ready for that outcome and won't even be surprised. That way if I pass the test it will be a pleasant surprise and if I fail I will be ready for it.

No, you know that you will fail.  Just like when you said that LID would lie about being healed BEFORE you did anything.  You are setting it up so that when you fail, your story is already in place.  So climb off the cross already.

And I really don't think I am mentally ill, if I were there would have been other clues, such as that I would actually be claiming to have a paranormal ability

Oh, like talking to ghosts?  Like being a star person? Surviving without food or water? Remote viewing?  Telepathy?  Sensing hormones in urine?  Listening to the thoughts of animals? 

Those are paranormal abilties that you have claimed.

or that I would be saying that I don't think I am going to fail the IIG test.

Just because someone has a mental illness doesn't mean they can not be manipulative.  In fact it is one of the signs of the personality disorders that match up with you. 

What happens after I fail the IIG test is that I will thank the IIG for having allowed me to falsify a claim I was not able to falsify on my own,

You did not try to falsify it on your own.  Any number of simple and easy tests would have falsified nearly all of your claims.

I will proudly admit that I falsified a paranormal claim, and I will dedicate my website to this conclusion in my investigation.

No, you wont. If you actually go through with it,   you will justify the results, claim too much negative energy, a headache, jet lag or some other obvious excuse. 

Call me psychic but I also see that you will come up with an even newer version of how your ESP works.  You will claim to have learned this during the IIG test.  You will then thank the IIG for helping you sort out this new Vision From Whatever and demand that they test it.

Don't let your imagination get you carried away, it could turn into delusional.

Sound advice, too bad it's too late for you.

Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 23 Sep 2009 06:02 PM

 I absolutely do not believe I have a paranormal ability, I just think I've had interesting accurate perceptions of health.

Nonsense. Her entire website and thousands of words on the JREF forum are devoted to her "paranormal" ability. (When Anita uses a term like "abolutely do not believe", that means "I'm lying, but the "absolutely" will fool them into thinking I am telling the truth." It's a dead giveaway.)

My main hypothesis is that I am unintentionally and subconsciously picking up subtle external clues about a person's health when I look at them and that it translates into corresponding images of health. I don't know.

Paranormal...synesthesia...and now it's cold reading.

 I'm headed toward a career in conventional medicine.

And a career in woo. Where she won't get very far, because, to be successful at cold reading, one actually has to listen to what the other person is saying, not just the sound of their own voice.

I am prepared to fail at the IIG test and so if and when I fail I am ready for that outcome and won't even be surprised.

Of course not. She's already set up the alternative - a "special" form of synesthesia that hasn't been documented yet. Either way, she comes out "extraordinary". She won't be surprised, she'll just switch tactics and claim that the IIG test proved she hasn't been cold reading. And she'll continue to hint that her super special synesthesia is really paranormal, available only to "star people", or some such nonsense.

That way if I pass the test it will be a pleasant surprise and if I fail I will be ready for it. And I really don't think I am mentally ill, if I were there would have been other clues, such as that I would actually be claiming to have a paranormal ability or that I would be saying that I don't think I am going to fail the IIG test.

Whch she has done, so there have been other clues. She just refuses to look at them.

What happens after I fail the IIG test is that I will thank the IIG for having allowed me to falsify a claim I was not able to falsify on my own, I will proudly admit that I falsified a paranormal claim, and I will dedicate my website to this conclusion in my investigation.

Which simply means that she will dedicate her website to her "extraordinary" synesthesia. Of course, she won't be tested for synesthesia, because this will be that "special" form of synesthesia, which no doctor would be able to diagnose, etc. Hey, maybe she could pretend to have "discovered' this unique form of synesthesia, and 'demand' the Nobel Prize! I'll bet the Nobel Committee would jump right on it...

Don't let your imagination get you carried away, it could turn into delusional.

She would know.

Posted By bookitty on 24 Sep 2009 03:26 PM
This anti-paranormal trend is interesting. Especially the part where she clearly claims to be a cold reader. Why would a paranormal claimant who is very close to a test suddenly deny that they have any paranormal ability? It's not like Vff isn't aware of the language and science of debunking.

But, if she doesn't have a paranormal ability, then there is no test. Then she can say that they canceled because they misunderstood her.

Or maybe, just maybe, she's getting as sick of this as we are?

Seems to me she did the same thing last year-suddenly acknowledged that her ability might very well be subconscious cold reading. In fact, I think it was when she first contacted the Winston Salem group and it looked as if an informal test with them might be imminent. But. I'll have to wade through the original VfF thread to be sure. 

Posted By desertgal on 24 Sep 2009 05:58 PM

Posted By bookitty on 24 Sep 2009 03:26 PM
This anti-paranormal trend is interesting. Especially the part where she clearly claims to be a cold reader. Why would a paranormal claimant who is very close to a test suddenly deny that they have any paranormal ability? It's not like Vff isn't aware of the language and science of debunking.

But, if she doesn't have a paranormal ability, then there is no test. Then she can say that they canceled because they misunderstood her.

Or maybe, just maybe, she's getting as sick of this as we are?

Seems to me she did the same thing last year-suddenly acknowledged that her ability might very well be subconscious cold reading. In fact, I think it was when she first contacted the Winston Salem group and it looked as if an informal test with them might be imminent. But. I'll have to wade through the original VfF thread to be sure. 

Oh, please don't.  I wouldn't wish that on a dog.

and dogs are illiterate.

Posted By bookitty on 23 Sep 2009 07:06 PM
Just for the record, although I stated that this website will doom her future, I do not believe that it should be taken down. VFF has already shown that she is seeking marks for her con. The potential damage to many is more important than the actual damage to VFF. She has created this mess, she should deal with the repercussions.

Only if I actually hurt someone will I have to be concerned with any consequences for myself. So far I have not hurt anyone. I will look into the possibility of investigating my migraine treatment claim but if that takes place it will all be according to laws and regulations, volunteers won't be charged any money, they receive a harmless massage and if they experience coinciding improvement - great! If not, no harm done. But do keep a watch over me, I really don't want to hurt anyone. Just don't expect my future to be over as of now, I have not harmed anyone to date.

Do you think the highlighted sentence above is funny? It's not even correct English BTW.

Swedish type-o. I'm entitled to it.

As to delusions I am not the person who:

Asks for protocol help and then changes each and every protocol suggestion to the point that it's unusable.

The protocol has to allow the claim to take place. If no such protocol can be reached that both agrees with test standards and with the claim then that claim is to be considered untestable. My medical perceptions claim is a testable claim. I just won't turn it into remote viewing.

Posts personal information about Unca Yimmy and LightnDarkness on the internet. BTW that is a big breach of internet protocol.

This was thoroughly discussed at the JREF Forums until the moderators there decided to move it away. It turned out I had not posted anything about Jim Carr that he hadn't already posted on the Forums himself, with the exception of one detail that I can't remember what it was, but it was insignificant. What personal information have I posted about LightinDarkness? That he/she has migraines? Works at Duke University? LightinDarkness has already posted that information. And it was he/she who wanted us to make our correspondence public. Besides, all of you are posting personal information about me and content from PM's, but I guess you can do things to paranormal claimants that you can't do to other people?

Calls skeptics "resources" and future scientists and possible coworkers "parasites".

The only time I called someone a parasite was when I said that if there were a Nobel prize associated to my paranormal claim then if someone else took it from me then they would be parasites. And the only reason there has been any discussion about a Nobel prize is because Jim Carr said that if my claim were verified someone else would be entitled to my Nobel prize. I don't expect a Nobel prize. But if there is one shouldn't it be mine?

Says that she like to make fun of the JREF skeptics and don't give me the language excuse because I'm way past the time where I'll ever give you the benefit of the doubt.

What I meant with what I said was misunderstood, again a Swedish type-o caused from direct translation. What it meant was that I have fun with the Skeptics.

Wants to experiment on migraine sufferers and was so bold as to contact a migraine sufferers support group. I could go on ad nauseum but I'll end it here. As far as I'm concerned you are a waste of band width.

The man I attempted to treat claims dramatic and lasting improvement in his migraine condition. To not want to investigate whether there is a possible skill in treating migraine symptoms would be irresponsible.

Oh, so what do you call lying?

I haven't lied about anything. You just find all of this unbelievable, that's all.

No, you are saying that you had an experience, called it paranormal and will look at no other explanation.

I haven't been able to explain my experiences of accurate medical perceptions. Of course I consider other explanations other than paranormal, I just call it a paranormal investigation because I don't know what it is.

No, the only consequence is that IIG might (if you go through with it) end up wasting their time so that you can be the center of attention for a few hours.

The IIG is available for testing paranormal claims and they have agreed to test my claim.

Oh really? Because your ENTIRE webite says otherwise. You claim to heal people with touch, to see bacteria in cereal. In addition, you have talked to Ben Franklin. That wasn't paranormal? And if you have no paranormal abilty, why the hell are you wasting IIG time?

I do not claim to be able to heal. I claim that the person I attempted to treat is claiming that I healed his migraine symptoms. Read carefully. I remain skeptical toward his alleged improvement and am still waiting for him to say that he was only kidding, at which the first thing I would do is announce that the migraine claim has been falsified and I don't have to bother with having it tested.

but WOW! Talk about changing the claims. Before you were the human MRI who could tell which molecule in a carrot was good for cancer. Now you just pick up on external clues?

The claim of perceptions is just a claim. I have described what I experience and the accuracy that I claim some of that has had, but I have not concluded on what any of this is. That is what the test is for.

You do realize that you just described yourself as a cold reader, right?

I consider one possible explanation that I pick up subtle external clues unintentionally and that those translate into corresponding medical images on its own, similar to how synesthesia works. I do not intentionally look for external clues, in fact most of the time I close my eyes to have the perceptions form, however I do need to look at the person to initiate this. In my experience I need to see the person in order to locate them and find the vibrational information, but it could be that this is what it needs to pick up some external clues.

No, you're not. Not unless you figure out a way to look sane. Do you really think that anyone would hire the person that you have been here, on the JREF forums and your website? Someone who will tell the patient that they see health issues that the doctor can't? Somebody who will treat people without their knowledge or permission? Someone who tried to con a migraine group into being used as human guinea pigs?

My synesthetic experiences and perceptions never interfere with what is otherwise my normal judgement. I have worked three years in nursing homes and not once did I make any changes or decisions to my practice of health care based on any of my subjective perceptions. Also read my answer to this here. Medicine is an exact science.

Here's an example. Lots of men when they see a woman instantly have thoughts about having sex with her. It is automatic and can be images. But that does not mean that he will do it or that he is a rapist. In the same way, what ever internal images I experience does not matter, what matters is how and whether I choose to express them. And in my practice of science and medicine, I do not express them.

No, you know that you will fail. Just like when you said that LID would lie about being healed BEFORE you did anything. You are setting it up so that when you fail, your story is already in place. So climb off the cross already.

Of course I expect to falsify the claim. Why are you arguing against that? If I were here expecting not to fail the test, then you would be equally mad. You just want to be upset don't you? 

Just because someone has a mental illness doesn't mean they can not be manipulative. In fact it is one of the signs of the personality disorders that match up with you.

I am not being manipulative. I am simply disagreeing with things you say that I know to not be true. You call me a liar when I have not lied, then when I object you call me manipulative.

Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 25 Sep 2009 10:42 PM

Do you think the highlighted sentence above is funny? It's not even correct English BTW.

Swedish type-o. I'm entitled to it.

Yes we are all very famaliar with your sense of entitlement.

As to delusions I am not the person who:

Asks for protocol help and then changes each and every protocol suggestion to the point that it's unusable.

The protocol has to allow the claim to take place. If no such protocol can be reached that both agrees with test standards and with the claim then that claim is to be considered untestable. My medical perceptions claim is a testable claim. I just won't turn it into remote viewing.

Your usual gibberish.  You described how you envisioned UY at his desk, in great detail.  Of course you were wrong.  Recently you asked UY if his wife was there, wrong again.  This is remote viewing.

Posts personal information about Unca Yimmy and LightnDarkness on the internet. BTW that is a big breach of internet protocol.

This was thoroughly discussed at the JREF Forums until the moderators there decided to move it away. It turned out I had not posted anything about Jim Carr that he hadn't already posted on the Forums himself, with the exception of one detail that I can't remember what it was, but it was insignificant. What personal information have I posted about LightinDarkness? That he/she has migraines? Works at Duke University? LightinDarkness has already posted that information. And it was he/she who wanted us to make our correspondence public. Besides, all of you are posting personal information about me and content from PM's, but I guess you can do things to paranormal claimants that you can't do to other people?

The moderaters deleted that part of your post because it not only breached the MA but breached the first rule of internet etiquette.

Calls skeptics "resources" and future scientists and possible coworkers "parasites".

The only time I called someone a parasite was when I said that if there were a Nobel prize associated to my paranormal claim then if someone else took it from me then they would be parasites. And the only reason there has been any discussion about a Nobel prize is because Jim Carr said that if my claim were verified someone else would be entitled to my Nobel prize. I don't expect a Nobel prize. But if there is one shouldn't it be mine?

Says that she like to make fun of the JREF skeptics and don't give me the language excuse because I'm way past the time where I'll ever give you the benefit of the doubt.

What I meant with what I said was misunderstood, again a Swedish type-o caused from direct translation. What it meant was that I have fun with the Skeptics.

You have absolutely no social skills.  Do you ever think before you type?

Wants to experiment on migraine sufferers and was so bold as to contact a migraine sufferers support group. I could go on ad nauseum but I'll end it here. As far as I'm concerned you are a waste of band width.

The man I attempted to treat claims dramatic and lasting improvement in his migraine condition. To not want to investigate whether there is a possible skill in treating migraine symptoms would be irresponsible.

You said you had an affidavit from the man but, as usual never posted it.  Lying again?  Why, yes you are.

Posted By bookitty on 26 Sep 2009 02:55 AM
Actually, if you mention that story, I will be reading it as "Hello, I am Anita Ikonen. Today I am not getting enough attention. So I am going to tell you the migraine story again because I am a manipulative attention whore who has no impulse control."

That made me chuckle - whenever I see Anita post anything I read it as "Hello, I am Anita Ikonen. Today I am not getting enough attention."