UncaYimmy
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Posts:1156
 | | 11 Sep 2009 08:02 AM |
| It occurs to me we need a thread to document Anita Ikonen's lies, half-truths, misleading statements and broken promises. Before posting, be prepared to back up your claim. Of course, Anita Ikonen of UNCC is welcome to respond in this thread. | | UncaYimmy
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UncaYimmy
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Leader of the Pack
Posts:1156
| | 11 Sep 2009 08:03 AM |
| I'll start. This post was copied from another thread.
Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 10 Sep 2009 09:09 PM
It was arranged so that Jim Carr could call two out of these three persons but he declined. I am sure if Jim would have bothered to look into it, he wouldn't be calling me a liar.
You are a liar about many things. You claimed to have affidavits attesting to this miracle, but that turned out to be a lie. I then said I would consider phone verification, but you accused me of being a stalker, so I retracted my offer. After I rescinded the offer, you gave me phone numbers for two people and one person's first name (your alleged boyfriend). You did not give me the name of the person who was allegedly healed. You also told me that if his wife answered that I was to just ask for "her husband" and not mention anything about the healing. This despite the wife being a key figure in your story because she said she was thankful that the family got their lives back. Even if you had not called me a stalker, the calls would have been meaningless. It was obviously a scam. So, it is a lie for you to say that anything was "arranged" or that I declined any type of arrangement. I retracted an offer before you ever gave me any information whatsoever. | | UncaYimmy
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StevenCalder
Groupie
Posts:27
| | 11 Sep 2009 10:23 AM |
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Posted By UncaYimmy on 11 Sep 2009 12:02 AM
misleading statements and broken promises Could we not just lump all of her claims safely into this catogery due to lack of evidence? Afterall its not for us to prove its bunk, its the other way around. Or is that too easy?  | | | |
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desertgal
V.P. of Patient Relations
Stripes Earned - Respect Me
Posts:1030
| | 11 Sep 2009 06:34 PM |
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Posted By UncaYimmy on 11 Sep 2009 12:03 AM
I'll start. This post was copied from another thread.
Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 10 Sep 2009 09:09 PM
It was arranged so that Jim Carr could call two out of these three persons but he declined. I am sure if Jim would have bothered to look into it, he wouldn't be calling me a liar.
You are a liar about many things. You claimed to have affidavits attesting to this miracle, but that turned out to be a lie. Whatever happened to those "affidavits", Anita? You were pretty emphatic about their existence...until you were pushed to provide them and then you fell suspiciously silent. Guess they're laying by your computer, along with the data from your last...ahem..."study", waiting to be scanned... After I rescinded the offer, you gave me phone numbers for two people and one person's first name (your alleged boyfriend). You did not give me the name of the person who was allegedly healed. You also told me that if his wife answered that I was to just ask for "her husband" and not mention anything about the healing. This despite the wife being a key figure in your story because she said she was thankful that the family got their lives back. Why is that, Anita? The wife, according to you, practically worshiped the ground you walk on...until push came to shove and there was a chance she might actually be asked about it. Is she too overcome with joy and relief to talk about the miraculous restoration of her husband's health...or does she simply not know that it happened? We're guessing it's the latter... Even if you had not called me a stalker, the calls would have been meaningless. It was obviously a scam. So, it is a lie for you to say that anything was "arranged" or that I declined any type of arrangement. I retracted an offer before you ever gave me any information whatsoever.
This is something UY has explained several times, Anita...and, yet, you just continue to be dishonest about the issue. Please, spare us the "I am not a liar" bit. It's glaringly apparent, in your whoring for attention, that you are incapable of any sustained honesty. | | | "The only time you can read the future from cards is when you are holding four aces in a poker game." - Pernell Roberts | |
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VisionFromFeeling
I Really, Really Did...Nothing
One of the Gang
Posts:133
| | 12 Sep 2009 02:40 AM |
| Posted By UncaYimmy on 11 Sep 2009 12:02 AM
Anita Ikonen of UNCC is welcome to respond in this thread.
My paranormal investigation is something I do on my spare time and it is part of my personal life and it does not represent my university or my professional life. I really don't see why everyone is upset that Jim wasn't allowed to speak with the wife of the man who I attempted to treat for migraines. It was the man who said that he did not want Jim to speak with his wife, so why are we disrespecting his wishes? It was I who asked him whether this Skeptic (Jim) could speak with his wife, so do not make it sound as if I was avoiding that. The two persons that Jim was allowed to call were my boyfriend and the man whom I attempted to treat for migraines. The offer still stands, if Jim will let me know first so that I can give these two persons a heads up. They are real persons, and they experienced a real improvement in their pain condition that coincided with the time I attempted to heal. I have not lied. | | | She's simultaneously the worst woo and the worst skeptic I've ever seen. That's no small accomplishment. | |
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desertgal
V.P. of Patient Relations
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Posts:1030
| | 12 Sep 2009 03:33 AM |
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Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 11 Sep 2009 06:40 PM
Posted By UncaYimmy on 11 Sep 2009 12:02 AM
Anita Ikonen of UNCC is welcome to respond in this thread.
My paranormal investigation is something I do on my spare time and it is part of my personal life and it does not represent my university or my professional life.
I really don't see why everyone is upset that Jim wasn't allowed to speak with the wife of the man who I attempted to treat for migraines. It was the man who said that he did not want Jim to speak with his wife, so why are we disrespecting his wishes? It was I who asked him whether this Skeptic (Jim) could speak with his wife, so do not make it sound as if I was avoiding that.
The two persons that Jim was allowed to call were my boyfriend and the man whom I attempted to treat for migraines. The offer still stands, if Jim will let me know first so that I can give these two persons a heads up. They are real persons, and they experienced a real improvement in their pain condition that coincided with the time I attempted to heal. I have not lied.
You haven't lied? Then, let's see those affidavits, Anita. | | | "The only time you can read the future from cards is when you are holding four aces in a poker game." - Pernell Roberts | |
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UncaYimmy
Your Brilliancy
Leader of the Pack
Posts:1156
| | 13 Sep 2009 12:16 AM |
| What a bunch of nonsense, Anita. You lied about having affidavits. Now the only evidence is your 69 year old boyfriend and his 56 year old, unnamed friend who's afraid to have his wife corroborate his story. Sorry, but that smells like the lies that it is. Were I still interested in verifying this story, I would need to talk to all the parties involved. That means your boyfriend, his neighbor, the migraine guy, and the migraine guy's wife. They were all people mentioned in your fairy tale, so their stories need to be confirmed with what you said and with each other.
However, I am not going to do it. Period. End of discussion. | | UncaYimmy
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bookitty
One of the Gang
Posts:140
| | 13 Sep 2009 12:27 AM |
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Posted By UncaYimmy on 12 Sep 2009 04:16 PM
What a bunch of nonsense, Anita. You lied about having affidavits. Now the only evidence is your 69 year old boyfriend and his 56 year old, unnamed friend who's afraid to have his wife corroborate his story. Sorry, but that smells like the lies that it is. Were I still interested in verifying this story, I would need to talk to all the parties involved. That means your boyfriend, his neighbor, the migraine guy, and the migraine guy's wife. They were all people mentioned in your fairy tale, so their stories need to be confirmed with what you said and with each other.
However, I am not going to do it. Period. End of discussion.
I admire your restraint. I would be tempted to call just to see how far Vff's madness has spread. And to double-check that she isn't actually taking money for her nonsense. She keeps repeating over and over that she isn't. Everything else she repeats endlessly is a lie. Why should this be any different? | | | |
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VisionFromFeeling
I Really, Really Did...Nothing
One of the Gang
Posts:133
| | 13 Sep 2009 08:01 AM |
| What a bunch of nonsense, Anita. You lied about having affidavits. Now the only evidence is your 69 year old boyfriend and his 56 year old, unnamed friend who's afraid to have his wife corroborate his story. Sorry, but that smells like the lies that it is. Were I still interested in verifying this story, I would need to talk to all the parties involved. That means your boyfriend, his neighbor, the migraine guy, and the migraine guy's wife. They were all people mentioned in your fairy tale, so their stories need to be confirmed with what you said and with each other. However, I am not going to do it. Period. End of discussion.
It's not that he's afraid, it's that he would like to have some privacy. I still don't see why you can't respect his feelings. What if something happened to you and some guy wanted to call your wife and talk to her? Being a loving husband, you might say no.
I admire your restraint. I would be tempted to call just to see how far Vff's madness has spread. And to double-check that she isn't actually taking money for her nonsense. She keeps repeating over and over that she isn't. Everything else she repeats endlessly is a lie. Why should this be any different?
Well there is only one simple solution. bookitty calls my boyfriend and the migraine guy. Unless you have some strange excuse. | | | She's simultaneously the worst woo and the worst skeptic I've ever seen. That's no small accomplishment. | |
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bookitty
One of the Gang
Posts:140
| | 13 Sep 2009 10:26 AM |
| Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 13 Sep 2009 12:01 AM
Well there is only one simple solution. bookitty calls my boyfriend and the migraine guy. Unless you have some strange excuse.
I would be happy to make the call. But before I do, please tell me what exactly I am supposed to ask and how doing so will prove anything. Give me just one definite reason why I would be able trust what they say. I do understand how wanting real evidence might confuse your silly little head, So I won't be insulted when you find worthless data to be a "strange excuse" for inaction. | | | |
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Audible Click
Merit Badge for Meanies
Posts:502
| | 13 Sep 2009 10:52 AM |
| bookitty you are being so silly of course Anita's boyfriend and his friend will tell you the truth and give you complete data and history..uh huh..yeah..right! | | | It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames.
-- Harry Hill | |
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bookitty
One of the Gang
Posts:140
| | 13 Sep 2009 11:54 AM |
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Posted By Audible Click on 13 Sep 2009 02:52 AM
bookitty you are being so silly of course Anita's boyfriend and his friend will tell you the truth and give you complete data and history..uh huh..yeah..right!
We'd get a more honest answer from the wife I'd bet. "Anita? Oh you mean that crazy girl who thinks she's an alien and is always sniffing around my husband?" | | | |
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desertgal
V.P. of Patient Relations
Stripes Earned - Respect Me
Posts:1030
| | 13 Sep 2009 03:57 PM |
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Posted By bookitty on 13 Sep 2009 03:54 AM
Posted By Audible Click on 13 Sep 2009 02:52 AM
bookitty you are being so silly of course Anita's boyfriend and his friend will tell you the truth and give you complete data and history..uh huh..yeah..right!
We'd get a more honest answer from the wife I'd bet. "Anita? Oh you mean that crazy girl who thinks she's an alien and is always sniffing around my husband?"
I think the wife's response would be more along the lines of "I have no idea what you are talking about." If you do call, make sure your number is blocked on caller ID, bookitty. Otherwise, you'll be inundated with calls from Anita. | | | "The only time you can read the future from cards is when you are holding four aces in a poker game." - Pernell Roberts | |
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catbasket
One of the Gang
Posts:91
| | 13 Sep 2009 04:49 PM |
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Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 13 Sep 2009 12:01 AM
It's not that he's afraid, it's that he would like to have some privacy. I still don't see why you can't respect his feelings.
You mean like you respected LightInDarkness's privacy and feelings by plastering his/her personal details all over your website of ridiculous fantasies?
Word of the day - hypocrite. | | | |
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VisionFromFeeling
I Really, Really Did...Nothing
One of the Gang
Posts:133
| | 13 Sep 2009 09:35 PM |
| No. LightinDarkness is the one who wanted him and me to post in the public Forum. The only reason we were corresponding in Private Messages at that time was because the Forum Thread that we would have been discussing in was temporarily closed by moderators for clean-up. There was nothing private regarding our PM's, and it was LightinDarkness who wanted it to be taken to the public Forum. Also, I included no personal details. He had already announced whereabouts he lives on the public Forum, and that he has migraines. Meanwhile I carefully explained in the PM's to him that any personal information, such as name, what he looks like, his identity etc, would not be disclosed by me in a public Forum.
You guys are seeing what you would like to see.
Yes bookitty you can call my boyfriend and the migraine person. You may not speak with his wife if he does not want you to, and that decision has got nothing to do with me. As for what you should ask, here is what I would ask if I were the Skeptic making that call:
"Do you know her?"
"How do you know her?"
"Is it true that you had not met her prior to meeting her for the alleged migraine treatment?"
"How was it decided that you would meet with her?"
"What was your migraine condition before meeting with her?"
"Did she tell you what she would do would be effective, or did she tell you not to expect any results?"
"Did she charge any money from you?"
"What exactly was involved in the treatment? What did she do?"
"How long did the attempted treatment take?"
"What did you experience during the attempted treatment? Did you feel any effect?"
"What was your experience of the attempted treatment? Was it uncomfortable in any way?"
"Did you come to any harm during the treatment?"
"Did you experience any harm after the treatment that you might link to the attempted treatment?"
"Did you experience any change to your migraine condition after the attempted treatment?"
"What was your migraine condition after the attempted treatment in terms of frequency of migraines, severity, duration, etc.?"
"Did you make any changes to your medication after seeing her?"
"Did she tell you to make any changes to your medication or did she tell you to continue with your medication and conventional treatment plan without making changes?"
"Did she want to see you again for another treatment?"
"Have you experienced any lasting improvement in the migraine condition that you might have attributed to the treatment?"
This is not a comprehensive list or exactly the way I would do the interview. Please make your own list. I'm too busy with quantum physics to put more effort into it.  | | | She's simultaneously the worst woo and the worst skeptic I've ever seen. That's no small accomplishment. | |
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bookitty
One of the Gang
Posts:140
| | 13 Sep 2009 10:46 PM |
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Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 13 Sep 2009 01:35 PM
No. LightinDarkness is the one who wanted him and me to post in the public Forum. The only reason we were corresponding in Private Messages at that time was because the Forum Thread that we would have been discussing in was temporarily closed by moderators for clean-up. There was nothing private regarding our PM's, and it was LightinDarkness who wanted it to be taken to the public Forum. Also, I included no personal details. He had already announced whereabouts he lives on the public Forum, and that he has migraines. Meanwhile I carefully explained in the PM's to him that any personal information, such as name, what he looks like, his identity etc, would not be disclosed by me in a public Forum.
You guys are seeing what you would like to see.
Yes bookitty you can call my boyfriend and the migraine person. You may not speak with his wife if he does not want you to, and that decision has got nothing to do with me. As for what you should ask, here is what I would ask if I were the Skeptic making that call:
"Do you know her?"
"How do you know her?"
"Is it true that you had not met her prior to meeting her for the alleged migraine treatment?"
"How was it decided that you would meet with her?"
"What was your migraine condition before meeting with her?"
"Did she tell you what she would do would be effective, or did she tell you not to expect any results?"
"Did she charge any money from you?"
"What exactly was involved in the treatment? What did she do?"
"How long did the attempted treatment take?"
"What did you experience during the attempted treatment? Did you feel any effect?"
"What was your experience of the attempted treatment? Was it uncomfortable in any way?"
"Did you come to any harm during the treatment?"
"Did you experience any harm after the treatment that you might link to the attempted treatment?"
"Did you experience any change to your migraine condition after the attempted treatment?"
"What was your migraine condition after the attempted treatment in terms of frequency of migraines, severity, duration, etc.?"
"Did you make any changes to your medication after seeing her?"
"Did she tell you to make any changes to your medication or did she tell you to continue with your medication and conventional treatment plan without making changes?"
"Did she want to see you again for another treatment?"
"Have you experienced any lasting improvement in the migraine condition that you might have attributed to the treatment?" I see. You've already coached him.
This is not a comprehensive list or exactly the way I would do the interview. Please make your own list. I'm too busy with quantum physics to put more effort into it.  I had no idea that physics textbooks came in monosyllabic editions! That might explain why your reading comprehension is so lacking.
Again (and again!) here is the important question. Please do try to give an answer this time.
What is just one definite reason why I would be able trust what they say? | | | |
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StevenCalder
Groupie
Posts:27
| | 14 Sep 2009 12:32 AM |
| If I were phoning as a skeptic to enquire about the "healing" I would drop all of VFF's questions. The point is to comfirm or reject potential explanations id say. I mean if we got to that stage she would have already convinced us that the people on the other end are absolutely trustworthy beyond a shadow of a doubt!  But all of that is hypothetical tennis anyway.
Quoted for Emphasis!
Posted By bookitty on 13 Sep 2009 02:46 PM
What is just one definite reason why I would be able trust what they say?
(A few quick and dirty edits) | | | |
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desertgal
V.P. of Patient Relations
Stripes Earned - Respect Me
Posts:1030
| | 14 Sep 2009 02:05 AM |
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Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 13 Sep 2009 01:35 PM
No. LightinDarkness is the one who wanted him and me to post in the public Forum. The only reason we were corresponding in Private Messages at that time was because the Forum Thread that we would have been discussing in was temporarily closed by moderators for clean-up. There was nothing private regarding our PM's, and it was LightinDarkness who wanted it to be taken to the public Forum. Also, I included no personal details. He had already announced whereabouts he lives on the public Forum, and that he has migraines. Meanwhile I carefully explained in the PM's to him that any personal information, such as name, what he looks like, his identity etc, would not be disclosed by me in a public Forum.
For the newer members, this is a lie. LightInDarkness never gave Anita permission to post the text of private messages on her website. After she did, he specifically asked that she remove the texts of the PM's and his screen name from her website, since he did not want to be associated with her in any way. She removed the texts, but, last time I checked, she still had his screen name up there.
Anita's about as good at honoring requests as she is at telling the truth.
You guys are seeing what you would like to see.
No, honey. That would be you. I know confusion is common for [attention] whores, but try to concentrate. | | | "The only time you can read the future from cards is when you are holding four aces in a poker game." - Pernell Roberts | |
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VisionFromFeeling
I Really, Really Did...Nothing
One of the Gang
Posts:133
| | 14 Sep 2009 04:26 AM |
| Posted By desertgal on 13 Sep 2009 06:05 PM
I know confusion is common for [attention] whores, but try to concentrate.
Posted By desertgal http://forums.randi.org/showpost.ph...count=1091
I have successfully battled with schizotypal disorder for nearly 30 years.
Posted By desertgal http://forums.randi.org/showpost.ph...count=1231
I was diagnosed with the disorder before you were born, and I have successfully battled it longer than you have been alive. I've been where you are now. I know, intimately, how real delusions can be...how intoxicating, how much fun, how special they can make one feel. At least I'm not struggling with certain other personal issues. Confusion is common for what you have too.
| | | She's simultaneously the worst woo and the worst skeptic I've ever seen. That's no small accomplishment. | |
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bookitty
One of the Gang
Posts:140
| | 14 Sep 2009 04:42 AM |
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Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 13 Sep 2009 08:26 PM
At least I'm not struggling with certain other personal issues. Confusion is common for what you have too.
So you're a bitch. So what? You still haven't answered the question. Why should I believe ANYTHING your friends tell me on the phone? | | | |
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