 | | | | | | RE: VFF & Migraines Last Post 01 Nov 2009 01:43 AM by Daylightstar. 160 Replies. | Sort: |
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StevenCalder
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Posts:27
 | | 10 Sep 2009 09:06 AM |
| Long Time JREF Reader, Never before poster 
I'll preface this with the fact that I haven't read everything VFF has ever claimed, but the fact she claimed to be able to cure migraines certianly caught my eye.
Anyway should VFF ever find herself near the UK I'd like to offer myself up as a guinea pig for a migraine study.
For the folks who like numbers;
Im 25, and have had near constant migraines since I was 20.
Un-medicated I have 4-5 migraines per month, each lasting 2-3 days.
Medicated (100mg daily - Topiramate) 3ish migraines per month, each lasting 2ish days (If I get the timing right with Zulmitriptan).
I have roughly 1-3 full left side hemiplegic attacks per year, these are so far unavoidable with any medications I've tried.
I'd be happy to give any other information required.
I even have some spreadsheets kicking around if helpful for judging statistical shifts in frequency etc. I use them to identify triggers, efficacy of medications etc, but could probably be used as a base line if we ended up in a hurry. Otherwise could start a whole load of new data.
I would potentially be able to come off my medications for the duration of the test. I say potentially as my girlfriend may object, as would my brain probably!
I would have a couple stipulations should this ever actually happen, like defining a rigid protocol, only communicating publicly through one designated thread, but thats something to get into should anything ever materialize.
And im sure JREF members would have more to add should it ever happen...
I doubt she will ever take up the challenge, which could honestly be because she will simply never be near the UK, hell I can't say I'm planning a trip to NC. Anyway the offer stands, should anything ever come of it I'd love some help from you guys in making a wiggle free protocol.
Even then I doubt a negative result would somehow result in a negative impact in her belief.
Oh well, I'll do my skeptical duty and throw my hat into the ring any how!
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| UncaYimmy
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Leader of the Pack
Posts:1156
| | 10 Sep 2009 09:49 AM |
| Welcome, Steven! That sounds ilke a great offer. I hope VFF will respond. You're not the only one who hasn't read all the VFF stuff. I hope we can make a digest for people, but there's so much information. I have suffered migraines for years but never to the degree you do. You have my sympathies. I know everybody and his brother has advice, so I hope you don't mind yet another suggestion from a stranger! Several years ago my wife bought me a Chillow. It's basically a pillow about an inch or two thick and made of foam on the inside with a plastic side and a cloth side. You add water to it, which is absorbed by the foam. The pillow itself is not wet. Simple physics says this will carry away heat faster than an ordinary pillow. I have found that this combined with darkness and Exedrin (acetaminophen, aspirin and caffeine) help relieve the pain. The Chillow was a late addition to the formula, so I'm confident in saying that it helped the situation. Of course, this is anecdotal. It may be wishful thinking on my part. Then again, it might be real, but that doesn't mean it will work for you. If nothing else, they are actually quite comfortable when you're hot and want to cool down. | | UncaYimmy
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| StevenCalder
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Posts:27
| | 10 Sep 2009 12:39 PM |
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Posted By UncaYimmy on 10 Sep 2009 01:49 AM
You're not the only one who hasn't read all the VFF stuff. I hope we can make a digest for people, but there's so much information.
It just seems to be due to an abundance of pick'n'mix woo, she certianly doesn't want to be pigeon holed with any one type of woo. Its hard to keep track.
Posted By UncaYimmy on 10 Sep 2009 01:49 AM
You have my sympathies.
Although I appreciate the sentiment its unrequired, I've seen my fair share of folks on the internet going "OOOh look at me, I have x illness, now give me z pages of attention" its just uncouth  . Its not about me afterall, its about the lady who can cure migraines...
I've read through her migraine page twice now, and am no closer to actually understanding how she actually claims to accomplish it. Could anyone enlighten me? Or point me to a thread where she delves into more detail clarity?
Posted By UncaYimmy on 10 Sep 2009 01:49 AM
Several years ago my wife bought me a Chillow. It's basically a pillow about an inch or two thick and made of foam on the inside with a plastic side and a cloth side. You add water to it, which is absorbed by the foam. The pillow itself is not wet. Simple physics says this will carry away heat faster than an ordinary pillow. I have found that this combined with darkness and Exedrin (acetaminophen, aspirin and caffeine) help relieve the pain. The Chillow was a late addition to the formula, so I'm confident in saying that it helped the situation. Of course, this is anecdotal. It may be wishful thinking on my part. Then again, it might be real, but that doesn't mean it will work for you. If nothing else, they are actually quite comfortable when you're hot and want to cool down.
Thats one odd product, you have my thanks for the link! I will most certianly be investigating this. It seems, on the face of it, ideal. | | | |
| bookitty
One of the Gang
Posts:140
| | 10 Sep 2009 08:12 PM |
| Geez, as a fellow migraine sufferer, you have my sincere condolences. (Expressed with much empathetic wincing.)
Here's the thing, you've gone to the doctors and have tried all the usual medication. It has been only somewhat effective. Were you local to Vff, she would be happy to give you a head massage and tell you about all that black energy in your brain. She might even tell you then that she had taken care of it.
But should she? If she has no talent, then what's the harm? For you specifically, not too much. You're rational. All you get is a free scalp massage. Others might experience a placebo effect and stop taking the meds which reduce the migraines.
And what if she does have this magical super-power? Since it has never been tested, she has no ideas of the limitations. So she goes digging around in your brain juice and changes things. What if that makes things worse? The fact that she is willing to use people as subjects for a very new, untested medial procedure is a bit scary.
PS: I am all over that Chillow, UncaYimmy. Thanks!
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| UncaYimmy
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Leader of the Pack
Posts:1156
| | 11 Sep 2009 12:16 AM |
| This is how I understand Anita's claim for healing migraines: She said she looked into his head and using her Vision From Feeling saw dark areas just above the optical nerves. She then treated those areas by creating "another vibrational structure" and applying it to that area by seeing it there in her "mind's vision." She says she did this to remove the dark areas.
When she looked again, the dark areas were gone. She proceeded to use her hands to "press on pressure points to affect blood vessels and nerves." She was able to do this by "sensing and feeling what goes where." She says she did this to "balance the imbalance" she was feeling. She told that guy is was like "making a sculpture, and smoothing out the irregularities" that she felt.
She told the guy she couldn't finish the treatment that day because the problem was too extensive. She told him she needed to see him again - no charge, of course.
She continued with the "treatment" the same day. This time the dark areas were yellow. Apparently these are not tissues or physical structures she sees. She claims it is "vibrational substance differing in color by the wavelength/frequency that occurs across it." Apparently she sees black where she can detect an illness.
She told me, "What I thought I was doing was changing things in the blood vessels and nerves, changing their "voltage". I told him that I am changing it so that the nerves and blood vessels in the neck and upper back are not "on the same page" as those in the head that engage in the migraines. I did this by applying a different "voltage"/vibrational pattern over the one that I was feeling and so changing the one that I would feel from the body. All in my mind. But changing how I see tissues in my mind, can change how I will see it from the body at a later time."
In other words, it's all in her head. It's just her imagination and wishful thinking. She touched the person because, you know, that's how they do it on TV. And apparently she can not only detect Vibrational Information, she can transmit it as well. I'm just thankful that the Vibrational Information she transmitted didn't kill the guy or turn him into a kiwi fruit.
| | UncaYimmy
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| VisionFromFeeling
I Really, Really Did...Nothing
One of the Gang
Posts:133
| | 11 Sep 2009 12:24 AM |
| Hi Steven,
I would love the opportunity to try a migraine treatment with you. Now remember, and this is important, it is not I who claim that I can heal pain, it is those persons that I have attempted to heal who have experienced dramatic improvement that coincided immediately with the attempted treatment. Now, I have only done this three times, and only with one of those persons was it migraines. (The previous two were hand pain, and chronic shoulder pain.) Since migraine is such a devastating condition - although I have never personally experienced it - and conventional medicine is fairly ineffective in treating it, and since the treatment that I give is based on harmless visualization and gentle massage, I see no reason not to investigate.
Keep in mind that I am doing this because I care about migraine sufferers, and I have no intention of charging money for this and so that is not affecting my judgement or initiative in this.
If I were to give you an attempted treatment you would by all means need to keep taking your medication as before. One reason for that is that by not taking medicines, we would be introducing another variable into the situation and then we would not know whether it was my attempted treatment or the fact that you changed your medication habits that caused the change. But an obvious reason is also that I can not advise you to make any changes in your conventional treatment plan.
I did receive a previous offer from a Forum Skeptic who lives two hours from me to attempt to treat his migraines, but he declined since he is utterly convinced that if I fail to cause any improvement in his migraine condition I would not falsify the healing claim. Even though I have every intention of falsifying the claim if I am unable to heal. Unfortunately, Steven, you do live very far from here, so I don't see how we would get together? Other than that, I am all for it.
VFF | | | She's simultaneously the worst woo and the worst skeptic I've ever seen. That's no small accomplishment. | |
| VisionFromFeeling
I Really, Really Did...Nothing
One of the Gang
Posts:133
| | 11 Sep 2009 12:37 AM |
| But the interesting thing is that there was dramatic improvement that coincided with the attempted treatment. So I would like to try this again. And this time, with a Skeptic. I can't say I'm convinced that I can heal, but I do think I need to look into it. | | | She's simultaneously the worst woo and the worst skeptic I've ever seen. That's no small accomplishment. | |
| UncaYimmy
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| | desertgal
V.P. of Patient Relations
Stripes Earned - Respect Me
Posts:1030
| | 11 Sep 2009 03:12 AM |
| Nope. They are all pure snake oil.
Just more whoring for attention on Anita's part.
| | | "The only time you can read the future from cards is when you are holding four aces in a poker game." - Pernell Roberts | |
| Farencue
One of the Gang
Posts:176
| | 11 Sep 2009 04:07 AM |
| Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 10 Sep 2009 04:24 PM
Now remember, and this is important, it is not I who claim that I can heal pain, it is those persons that I have attempted to heal who have experienced dramatic improvement that coincided immediately with the attempted treatment.
Geez Anita, you sound just like a Messiah or something , Im so impressed
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| Farencue
One of the Gang
Posts:176
| | 11 Sep 2009 04:08 AM |
| Posted By Farencue on 10 Sep 2009 08:07 PM
Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 10 Sep 2009 04:24 PM
"Now remember, and this is important, it is not I who claim that I can heal pain, it is those persons that I have attempted to heal who have experienced dramatic improvement that coincided immediately with the attempted treatment."
Geez Anita, you sound just like a Messiah or something , Im so impressed
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| VisionFromFeeling
I Really, Really Did...Nothing
One of the Gang
Posts:133
| | 11 Sep 2009 05:09 AM |
| It was arranged so that Jim Carr could call two out of these three persons but he declined. I am sure if Jim would have bothered to look into it, he wouldn't be calling me a liar. | | | She's simultaneously the worst woo and the worst skeptic I've ever seen. That's no small accomplishment. | |
| StevenCalder
Groupie
Posts:27
| | 11 Sep 2009 05:26 AM |
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Posted By bookitty on 10 Sep 2009 12:12 PM
All you get is a free scalp massage.
Willing to recieve free scalp massage!
Posted By UncaYimmy on 10 Sep 2009 04:16 PM
This is how I understand Anita's claim for healing migraines: She said she looked into his head and using her Vision From Feeling saw dark areas just above the optical nerves. She then treated those areas by creating "another vibrational structure" and applying it to that area by seeing it there in her "mind's vision." She says she did this to remove the dark areas.
When she looked again, the dark areas were gone. She proceeded to use her hands to "press on pressure points to affect blood vessels and nerves." She was able to do this by "sensing and feeling what goes where." She says she did this to "balance the imbalance" she was feeling. She told that guy is was like "making a sculpture, and smoothing out the irregularities" that she felt.
She told the guy she couldn't finish the treatment that day because the problem was too extensive. She told him she needed to see him again - no charge, of course.
She continued with the "treatment" the same day. This time the dark areas were yellow. Apparently these are not tissues or physical structures she sees. She claims it is "vibrational substance differing in color by the wavelength/frequency that occurs across it." Apparently she sees black where she can detect an illness.
I just keep comming back to the fact that this girl just seems to be making pretty pictures in her head and placing undue signifigance on them.
Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 10 Sep 2009 04:24 PM
it is those persons that I have attempted to heal who have experienced dramatic improvement that coincided immediately with the attempted treatment
Im afraid thats where you fudged your data. With migraines (or ANY chronic condition) large data sets are required to offset the semi-random/enviromentall/pychological/dietary/etc affected nature of them. There are alot of variables involved. I can't just take a new pill and by the luck of the draw not have a migraine and shout "Whoopee! Im cured!". Or worse give false hope to others.
All you have is very very shoddy anecdotal evidence. When migraines are involved you need large data sets containing frequency and duration atleast, spanning back idealling 3 months prior to the treatment and 3 months after. Longer the better!
I have to say it does irk me, it give false hope to the desperate due to an ambiguous arrogant use of language. Basically at the very least when it comes to health treatment I'd ask if you have a shred of human decency in you, until you can show an effect to exist beyond the pretty pictures in your mind, statistically and imperically, shhh. I'd apprecaite it. Should the forces of woo ever align and you find your self in the UK I'll be happy test subject, and am not to worried about you falsifing yourself. People like yourself often say they will and never do, don't worry, a third party would be in control of the data and should a negative be returned they would falsify the claim, clearly and probably loudly. | | | |
| StevenCalder
Groupie
Posts:27
| | 11 Sep 2009 05:28 AM |
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Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 10 Sep 2009 09:09 PM
It was arranged so that Jim Carr could call two out of these three persons but he declined. I am sure if Jim would have bothered to look into it, he wouldn't be calling me a liar. A phone call is useless, when was the last scientific proof you heard of being verified via 'phone a friend'? You need Data! Data! Data! | | | |
| desertgal
V.P. of Patient Relations
Stripes Earned - Respect Me
Posts:1030
| | 11 Sep 2009 05:34 AM |
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Posted By StevenCalder on 10 Sep 2009 09:26 PM
Basically at the very least when it comes to health treatment I'd ask if you have a shred of human decency in you, until you can show an effect to exist beyond the pretty pictures in your mind, statistically and imperically, shhh. I'd apprecaite it.
I wouldn't count on this. In fact, I expect that Anita will now try to convince you, over and over again, with the same poor anecdotal evidence, that she does, in fact, have "good reason" (good reason=pretty pictures in her mind) to "suspect" (suspect=believe) that she has the "ability" (ability=self deception) to heal. Or maybe she is simply trying convince herself. Who knows at this point? Either way, she's not so good at understanding that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (or even any factual evidence at all). And she isn't being completely honest about Unca Yimmy, either. Which he can explain. | | | "The only time you can read the future from cards is when you are holding four aces in a poker game." - Pernell Roberts | |
| StevenCalder
Groupie
Posts:27
| | 11 Sep 2009 05:38 AM |
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Posted By desertgal on 10 Sep 2009 09:34 PM
I wouldn't count on this.
Im not, but figured it was worth a punt! | | | |
| UncaYimmy
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Leader of the Pack
Posts:1156
| | 11 Sep 2009 07:58 AM |
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Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 10 Sep 2009 09:09 PM
It was arranged so that Jim Carr could call two out of these three persons but he declined. I am sure if Jim would have bothered to look into it, he wouldn't be calling me a liar.
You are a liar about many things. You claimed to have affidavits attesting to this miracle, but that turned out to be a lie. I then said I would consider phone verification, but you accused me of being a stalker, so I retracted my offer.
After I rescinded the offer, you gave me phone numbers for two people and one person's first name (your alleged boyfriend). You did not give me the name of the person who was allegedly healed. You also told me that if his wife answered that I was to just ask for "her husband" and not mention anything about the healing. This despite the wife being a key figure in your story because she said she was thankful that the family got their lives back.
Even if you had not called me a stalker, the calls would have been meaningless. It was obviously a scam. So, it is a lie for you to say that anything was "arranged" or that I declined any type of arrangement. I retracted an offer before you ever gave me any information whatsoever. | | UncaYimmy
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| bookitty
One of the Gang
Posts:140
| | 11 Sep 2009 11:53 AM |
| Posted By VisionFromFeeling on 10 Sep 2009 04:24 PM
Hi Steven,
I would love the opportunity to try a migraine treatment with you....Since migraine is such a devastating condition - although I have never personally experienced it - and conventional medicine is fairly ineffective in treating it, and since the treatment that I give is based on harmless visualization and gentle massage, I see no reason not to investigate.
If it were only "harmless visualization" then there is no reason to do it. Anyone can rub someone's head and think happy thoughts. Why go to you? Oh, because you have the unimaginatively-named "vision from feeling" which has somehow morphed into "vision from feeling with vibrational energy." According to you, this vibration allows you to affect the source of migraines and cure them.
Since you're so eager to apply vibrational energy to a person's brain, can you please tell us what you know of the brain? Surely you've done intensive studies. What's that? You learned everything you know from the internet? And yet, you are willing to take the chance that you might have a super-power by testing it on someone'sbrain?
Keep in mind that I am doing this because I care about migraine sufferers, and I have no intention of charging money for this and so that is not affecting my judgement or initiative in this.
Yes, you care so much that you are willing to risk damaging someone's mind with a completely untested procedure. It doesn't matter that we all know you're a lying fraud. According to your claim, you can do this. According to you, you can make changes in a person's brain. You do this without knowing why it happens or if there are any long term effects.
You have not been tested and yet you are ALREADY practicing on people? That is sick, completely sick. So far, it's the biggest proof of your narcissistic tendencies. People are just lab rats to you. Thank goodness you're just an attention whore. If any of this was real, you would be a psychopath.
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| UncaYimmy
Your Brilliancy
Leader of the Pack
Posts:1156
| | 11 Sep 2009 10:30 PM |
| Bookitty has touched on a point that I have made before. If the ability is believed by Anita to be real, then she has a moral obligation to test it on animals under controlled conditions. It could be extremely dangerous to transmit vibrational patterns into someone's brain. She has not basis for believing what she is doing is safe or that she can do it reliably without any experience whatsoever. She claimed to be working on his optic nerves, which could have blinded him!
Of course, if you know deep down that this is just a silly grab for attention, you don't worry about those things, do you? | | UncaYimmy
Web Design and Virtual Marketing | |
| Audible Click
Merit Badge for Meanies
Posts:502
| | 11 Sep 2009 10:44 PM |
| Lies, Half-Truths, Misleading Statements and Broken Promises
Anita you are ignoring this thread. Afraid to answer? I'll ask you what I've asked over on the JREFF at least ten times.
When are you going to publish the raw data from your study? Last time you posted about it you claimed it was sitting on your desk. You made an agreement and broke it, thus revealing your dishonesty. You've pretty much been consigned to the woo trash heap at the JREFF so why not post it here? | | | It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames.
-- Harry Hill | |
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